Tending Seeds Transcript - Episode 9
Paw Paws with Dan De Lion
Sara Schuster 0:08
This is tending seeds, a podcast about my adventures and homesteading and herbalists on. I'm Sara Schuster, and I'll be your host. Thanks for being here today. Hi friends can you believe it's June already? I definitely can't. Things are growing like mad and we are finally hitting some of that summer heat here on the farm. There's also so much goodness out there. If you're doing any foraging at least, the elder flowers are in bloom which is one of my favorite things in the whole world. My businesses named Fox and elder because I love this planet so incredibly much from now until later in the summer when those flowers turn to elderberries. I will just be out there picking my heart out, while also of course leaving plenty for others, including our pollinators. Mimosa is also coming into flower which has this super cool looking pink bloom. That looks like something out of a Dr. Seuss book. It's really I also have lots of herbs coming off the farm already and we just made our first batch of pesto from all this Faisal. It's going to be a great summer. For today's main topic, and letting someone else do the talking about a plant they are super passionate about. dandelion provided our guests audio today to discuss an incredible perennial the Papa Deanna is a forger herbalist and musician who is on a mission to help individuals and communities recognize nature as a continual and abundant provider of nourishment, medicine, food, and sacred connection. And to help reconnect the perception that nature is the very source of our students as humans. He has often found traveling around the country and his forage and reveal teaching classes and leading plant walks wherever he goes. I first came across Dan's work last year through Instagram, and he was talking very passionately about his love for palm trees and wanting to increase the biodiversity and availability of this phenomenal fruit tree. We connected and started talking and he was kind enough to offer to let me share this audio with my listeners. I was really impressed also by his offers to send seeds to folks if they would just cover shipping for him. You'll hear him mention that today. And I sure hope we'll be doing something similar again, during Papa season this year. I'll share his contact info at the end of the episode. So you can reach out to him if you're interested in getting seeds from him later on in the year if he does. So again, I will add a small note here about the audio quality being a bit different. As I mentioned, Dan is usually on the road. And so this was recorded on his phone during one of his cross country trips. I've edited out as much background noise as possible and tried to amplify dance words. It's not perfect, but I still think it's worth sharing and listening to. And I hope you'll get as much out of it as I did enjoy this
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call today on the
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pop up project and talk about the things that I'm learning as I've been traveling. And I'm really excited about Hong Kong, I think that we need to make an actor bring back the Pol Pot and we just throw them in every Park and start taking over ecology as
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our responsibility again from the ground.
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And so yesterday, actually, oddly enough, we Craig went to this park, and you're about to get in the car then and leave and go to another spot. And this lady was in a car and she goes like that. And she needed maybe she needs some help. Something like that. So she gets out of the car. And she's like, Are you the dandy lion and I saw she had a shirt with the park system on it. And so I was kind of like, well, who are you? And so I said yes, I wasn't afraid. I said yes. And she actually was a Facebook follower on the return to nature page. And she will often collect. So we all went for a walk yesterday with Cincinnati who just joined the live and Thompson machine. And so the sharing all that with you all. But it was really cool to hang out with her and she needs some hot spots
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told me the best spots.
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And it was very insightful to talk with her. So the Popeyes situation is I'm on tour, I'm a little late for the call Cause you know if I would have planned this earlier, but I didn't want to leave cherry Valley caught so soon, just trying to wrap up all the plant harvesting at the farm there,
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and then get on the road and start
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collecting pop on. So what I had is several friends along the way have saved seed. And I'm getting all the seed from all over the country as much as I can. And there's a reason that that's really important for proliferating pause. And that's all based on genetic diversity. So we basically have natural selection and artificial selection. And so natural selection is how ecology determines the trace of which genetics can spread. Where artificial selection is that the person, the human mind, the intellect, the desire, the cultural upbringing, the cultural boundaries about what is wild and what is nature, the epistemology of the human determines what seeds are saved. And so we have artificial selection going crazy in our world. And that's the result, we get all the bugs and pesticide problems,
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look at how the cows degraded, etc. So we have this problem where we're breeding plants using a system of thinking, which is actually causing them to get disease and we are, it's kind of an integrated, taking a cutting
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is more like injury.
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It's actually exactly the same genetic structure, nothing has changed. There's been no sexual reproduction, there's no diversity in the genes of those seeds. So that the cannabis industry is full on breeding cuttings from two. He said, all of them are cannabis even cannabis indica, there's maybe a third species with the idea of the hemp plant. So you have this issue where the last somehow indigenous people will see this thing they were predicting to visionary capacity on which plants, the
Dan De Lion 6:24
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stronger. And we lost that tradition somewhere along the way, and instead of instead of getting greedy and our desire, or what we took over. And so our desires for seed saving became sighs sweetness, right. And even those qualities, they all want a bigger food that sweeter those quality decisions, broke the genetic resumes, it didn't feed the immune system of the seeds that were building, all the seed bank that we're building your
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projections on what opponent should look like.
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And case like and usually case is less bitter and more sweet. And so one of the things that that does is of course, it creates the fiber to sugar ratio and increases the likely the diabetes so blueberries for example, the bigger they are, the less fiber they have, the fibers actually dilutes and cause the sugar to absorb more slowly. So the less fiber, the more sugar the more chances your your blood glucose levels going higher and higher.
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Hello mercury needed.
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So we have natural selection. What it is, is that biology, ecology determines the traits based on survival of the fittest. And there's pros and cons season that terminology, of course, is to exclude capitalism, it leads to social Darwinism, it leads to into this man has dominion over their paradigm, the patriarchy nonsense. So when we have natural selection via biology, ecology is choosing which seeds thrive and always pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing untested boundaries, pushing them to evolve and mutate and suck up nutrition and get better sunlight and learning facilities has with machines so that it can get more moisture, new water from when it rains, relation developing million year old relationships with microbes, they can synthesize vitamins as a poly culture together under the soil, all that's happening right in nature. And it's not necessarily happening in agriculture, especially if you're telling when you're turning all those bacteria to the sun. The sun cooking kills the bacteria, generation after generation. Plus, the blocks in the soul, which are usually removed agriculture are kills their billion year old multivitamin. A rock is a composition of minerals, and the bacteria and the mycelium and the plants are in a symbiotic relationship on the ground, connected to those rocks, and the plant supposed to sugar from light and brings that sugar down into its nutrients. And it drips that sugar out and the bacteria then eat that.
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And they synthesize
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acids, and those acids then break the rocks down. And then they are freestanding news to the plant species. And that's how kale gets its minerals acidic. So in the wild, there's more genetic resilience, there's more ability and need to adapt and change where if you're a top watering a plant like a carrot, it's not growing roots, it's not new to that symbiotic relationship is much closer how you run the grocery store is like 60 day 16 years old. So if you never want to see that point, is never going to actually go to see where they're getting cpvc distributors retail justice. So they're not engaging in this biological push that needs to happen. The paws are and right now what we have our I believe that she species in America, there's a seminar child labor. And then there's on door pop Hall, which I don't remember the species, the backgrounds in the south. And so the interesting thing is that that means there's two habitat regions in America to step proliferating and pushing the boundaries. And so if we take the diverse seeds that are on on the earth, there are varieties of two species.
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So let's just
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leave for Paul Paul aside and get to
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a similar trailer that so
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that's in the anime series, right? Or the content, family, Pastor Apple family. So he's added to the novena or Jeremiah, they are also in that same family. And this is the last of the fruits of North America that contains that. It's very hard to find the fat in North America. And so when I started foraging and getting into understanding the need of fats think you're actually living off the land and walking six hours a day, spending a lot of energy, you need fats and wild food sources if you're going to survive it. And it all comes down to where did the pop pop go? Because that would have been a Native American staple on that was able to provide that instead of animals providing that. And I think obviously, it's all in and you're really living off the land. You're in a position of needing why the divers, that's why the divers le Sosa's everything else. So Paul, Paul basically dropped off in a lot of ways. And it's very hard to tell why on this one lady had this theory that the beard, then
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the saplings, but I don't think that's true.
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And so I think that Paul Paul's our delivery system as a really important thing.
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What happened? Well,
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one of the theories, I just sort of thought about is that mastodons equals power, pause and put them out. And that was the best conference call ever with them and the seeds the germination would occur, and then pop off making a few stands there on one huge map on, you know, rising. So that's one solution, one variety actually have one. So you can go pop off ours, and look at a standard 3050. And it actually could be one, all the quality, one stand the same genetic
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species, and under the food,
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supposedly, to serve, you're finding food. One of the things is it may be two to 3% of drivers. See.
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The question is when the pop out drops
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does it have in the seats? Is that all genetically diverse seed? Or is it a carbon copy? Like taking a coating? Great. So that's the questions I've been talking to people about trying to figure out. So then after the mastodons died out, what could have happened is that needed people to be common cells to plant them everywhere. They valued me so much that this was part of the Native American food, forest. And all the you know, I have this vision with indigenous life here, all over the world was that you literally wake up and garden and farm and play. You pretend you play pretend that you were caretaking here. And that's how you came out of it. And so of course, like when Columbus and everyone came, they thought that it was just that way was their mentality. Because they had a Judeo Christian upbringing saying that God created the earth. And it was just that way, and man has dominion over the earth. And nature was just exploit that. And that's totally fine. So many other people died out. I think the pop off there done that as well. Because it relies on interacting for so long. And now it's wondering where it's fun. So if wondering where it's farmers zone. And so what we have is this internal contradiction in society, where we're not actually in the ecosystem, we are viewing the ecosystem as a frozen projection, something that does itself. Well, I believe that cultural model is wrong. And our goal here is to set parity here again, and to show that there's a value in the need and bring people back to go wild. But also just to the idea that features are the ground where the suffering hockey, there's food. And you could always choose from there. If you like to move in that area, you can pick out the ground, if you like the grass and enter you can pick up and then you can make monocultures all day.
Dan De Lion 15:32
So you don't have to,
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you can allow walled poly cultures to build into the concepts of permaculture, the new seen cultural paradigm, then, nature just makes itself we were supposed to shop at the grocery store. It's not working out so often. So what we can do is is kind of my goal and my vision and the pop out for me to do is try to get these seeds diversified all over the country. And wherever there are stands, if you can take a seed from somewhere else, whether that's 100 miles away, or whatever. If it proliferates, then that genetic sharing, right when they're sharing genetically, they're pollinated by flies, racer flies calm and actually, how many fruits and I say get pop also flies associated with pop on. And I've heard stories of putting want me on the podcast to increase production properties.
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So this is a this is a,
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this is a blessing of the block instead of the deal. And that's an important piece here. And so you have the fact that every time you diverse call these pop off, people are giving them the genetic incentive to continue to push push push on that evolution, so that they can then put themselves in the ecosystem that we live in. And everything me pause and stop inputting so much coconut oil, so much stuff like that.
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Danny Paul policy is.
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So when I'm collecting, I'll start with these seeds
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came from a friend in New Jersey that I met at cherry Valley Co Op. And she calls herself Mrs. pop off. And like I met the lady who called us and he says to our get your car, and she actually takes up haha saplings and gets the seeds and plants and everywhere. And I've also been doing that in New Jersey, I know about six or seven stands or every Paul policy I correct in the wall areas in New Jersey, I spread them all over. And I been at that for about five or six years now. And I go back to some of those stands. And of course they're too young. Think it takes about eight years the fruit, but the will be there for the future. And course this is mantra is the best time to plant the tree 20 years ago when the second best home right now. And all calls are safe. So here's a cool thing about problem. There's supposed to be here. And so if you're planning them in a state park with a park ranger seeing you, they'll say that's great, that's awesome. There's no problem, you know, and basis, blah, blah, blah, you're actually doing later free later for the park system. And that may be an incentive that we can push on to open up the dialogue of what to do with invasive plants in the meantime, and instead of pulling them out and putting them in garbage bags, and throwing them in a landfill. Perhaps we can localize the local medicine production, localize and get off the Big Pharma and all the stuff that all the people in actually, lb Won't you ask them as the partners. So do you like pharmaceuticals? Do you like the way the medical industry treats you? Do you trust your doctor? they'll likely say no, you know, and so this may be a way into having that dialogue between kicking the wall and even you know, harvesting garlic mustard as a agricultural practice, right? Imagine if you decide that you're going to wildcard mustard for your local supermarket or grocery store difference. Right? Or in the old way, in the old days, you have like your heart, and you just walk down the street and say I got all this garbage mustard and juicy and
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whatever it was at the time.
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Now we don't have that capacity. Because the FDA and the way that business is structured, it makes it impossible for someone to just have a vegetable stand it have to pay $20 million in testing and analysis and all this nonsense. So one of the ways in is that assuming a trial this supposed to be here, it's a wonderful, amazing through anything, overgrow the system, if we don't let so what's been happening is hapa is unable to be shipped all over the country in the world because it has a very thin skin. And it's a very soft fruit lunch, right. So we've been trying to figure out how to breathe potholes. And this is where we go into artificial selection. So they can have thicker skins. And some of the varieties that you'll get the Mitchell variety of this are somebody took a wild Paul Paul, and then started cultivating it for those traits like sighs
Dan De Lion 20:37
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you know, because
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agriculture now is based on the ethics of size equals more money. So bigger is not necessarily more nutrient dense. So the dandelions you're getting in the grocery store that are this big, aren't necessarily more nutrient dense than the small ones behind the wall. They're just full of water. Right? Because they've been bred that way to be
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obese and giant,
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because it's only a bunch of dandelions, a coffee box. So they haven't been able to kind of crack the code on pop off. And that gives us a key in to jump in there and start planting them around before they can even happen so that it can never be so commercialized, and give you a free local food that gets people into nature out in nature, looking for them helping the character, you can make yours, a certain level of like, wow, we have a responsibility here with nature to make food come out of it. So if you're interested, oh, let me get back I lost track of the the this is hot coffee. In New Jersey. She came over like the last day that I was there. And I didn't even know she was coming. And I had been taking her pop halls. And I put them in pots in the greenhouses given out to give them room to grow and everything. And so we had about St. Paul Paul's that shows I pull out in the greenhouse. And she gave most of the seeds for that. And so she came back and we had a discussion, we just got super into every little nitty gritty detail, haha. And then we got to the point where she
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helped me understand
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what I learned is competencies within the in a wet paper towel, put them in plastic bag, keep them in the refrigerator, and wait until spring or something on the move to get there. So that's something that I've tried that and you get mold. And then my friend Jared mortgage class who's also putting in olive oil, put some olive oil in there. So it'll be antifungal and stop the mold. And that was just kind of a mess, and P and so this is our policy from New Jersey, told me that she saves in charge of water. And I thought very go well, so sensible. And I would never do that again. For long storage, I am doing that technique for shipping. So, you know, I sent out about 20 packets of policies and doing 10. And basically it costs about $10 to ship them and then anything about that you can offer your donation so that I can keep doing this and keep sharing and learning new stories and bringing stories to all set, you know. So these are fun for a while pop off fans in New Jersey.
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And I've added as I've gone
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Papa from different parts of the country.
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And so that's hoping to diversify this evening. So when you're getting that you're getting a pile of diversity. And that's the hope to pop off in the long run. So if you are interested, send me a message. And we can figure out how to spread the pop arms around the whole effect. They have that so what the range is a pol pot. So people are saying, Oh, can I do that in California? Not much to say conditions. It's too dry. They can't get them in the desert southwest or California. I don't know how far off the coast, they can go. So that's a question that we have. We've got Washington, Oregon, does anybody know there's problems out there. And a bunch of people keep asking in Canada and I just returned today with a friend I posted on my story just talking about Hong Kong and she's definitely found them I believe in Ontario, Canada. So we you know, they're in Michigan. And while tightening up the name is Chris was mentioning how she has found a Paul Paul. And, and so there's this like northern all falling into the variety beneficial. For colder climates, New Jersey gets really cold with Ohio. In Indiana, there's tons of hot it's also called the Indiana banana. But the way that those would not be as cold tolerant as the ones in Michigan. So Oh, there you are, hi was wild time here on in Michigan, if we can start pushing those up into Canada to the degree that they're needed to that areas, something that would be research on, we could say that there's a need in Canada, so they only grow in desert climate. But they then have this other species door pop off where so this for Papa also goes in the south. And so the same diversification the genome of the pop up can be happening for pop off
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the South it grows in Florida.
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I think it's Alabama.
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The state bars are just as mentioned, what I think is an Alabama and and being a dancer is a different different species in the south, which can also be diversified. And these are kind of the northern part, which really spread all over their their cross talent. So
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when you get pause, when you get to see
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what you want to do, I think it's just go out and plant them in the deciduous forest. They like downward slope cold water.
Dan De Lion 26:01
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you know, that means no evergreen stuff like that. And then I think that's the best bet. A lot of people want to save them and plant them in a screen. I don't even know why. Because if you think what happens that all fall drops, and a deer steps on it, or something, or native people used to put them in the ground, or you will now start remembering once he is all it takes to grow for the top on for the future generations. So they ended up alone again. And so with that proper, a very diversity increase in all over. And so what I like to do is I'll just take the seeds and plant them about four to six feet apart. And just you know, put a stake in the ground put about an inch or two inch hole, Papa Papa and heavier. So it's really easy. Oh, while behind you so much Nashville, but not a whole lot of fruit. You're bringing on such a good point. And I think I was talking to
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someone else about this this morning.
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I think what's happening is people have been doing their due diligence and even Park systems are starting to pop off. I see a lot of young Paul Paul's out there. But they're too young to fruit. And so I think we have a wave of Paul Paul's coming in the future. And this effort can be increased and continued. I think what what I find is that he doesn't have the pause that I find aren't old enough to actually go on. So I think it needs to be about eight years. And so everybody's kind of all on the Pol Pot and what you're seeing i think is when Paul's in the making mommy and daddy pop off. And what I find is a tree about that big around will be big enough to start producing all while this is also I feel like they're under understand not getting son. Actually that's exactly what they are. They're an understory it's it's a we are so used to the woods being canopy and plants and bushes. We don't have that habitat because it's been completely destroyed. We don't have the middle canopy. And that's pause is supposed to be in that middle range, you know, 15 or 20 feet up. And they right model Sunday don't like full sun. So horticulturalists are trying to force them to gain full sun, when they heard about that is that actually the Popeyes to proliferate so much on that tree, you can actually snap the tree off because too much sun, I do know that it will pause on skip it.
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So it will grow the Papa
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in a pot, then, if you put it in the song It would totally ball it needs at least four years of shape. So welcome home says yes, I've only sent a few pounds a month of things as far as they're young. And they're coming I've chosen to be Pol Pot pot of sorts. And so you plant them in the ground. That's the easiest way to do it. If you don't want to put them in the ground right now, you can keep them in jar and water in your refrigerator because they need to go to a frost. And that's again why I think it's really important
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to just plant them in the ground now,
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because what they're going to do is get cold stratified. So that means over the winter, the temps drop to a certain level the boundaries is what does something to awaken the seed of all the seeds fertility cycle. And it feels that cold weather chemical changes that are happening in the seed, and then it starts to get ready for spring. And then when the water
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comes, that means in the spring, that activates
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the seed to start germinating them. So if you don't freeze pop off,
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they won't join me.
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So if you just plant them in the spring, you leave them in a jar like this, we won't Germany, unless they go through culture gratification. So everybody out there who's getting them. either put them in your fridge in water into the spring, I don't know why you would do that. Or I guess to figure out where you plant them. Or make sure that they don't dry out. So if the policies dry out our jewelry, amazing jewelry, and innovation serving, making pop up jewelry, necklaces, whatever you can do makin a pop off, just draw a whole film and beautiful earrings on that. But they have the same voice. Say, future quarter What's up, and 10 years in my pop out in New Jersey and still no fruit for the flowers are beautiful. Well, here's another thing.
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Do you have multiple
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Dan De Lion 30:51
You've always multiple seasons will be different varieties of seed in order to produce food. So this is where I don't know the answer to that. So I think that was called the other all diversified, the more varied sees that we get going, the more they're going to produce fruit. I think that a lot of people will one pop off, you're not going to get fruit from just one. Paul Paul, you need at least two. Right? I don't know if that means two plants, like you can put the food and you put the two seeds in that without produce fruit? I think so, yes. Or it needs to be different varieties in different places. That seems complicated. Don't think that's true. But that's the big question. So it may be just that you need to diversify the seats there. So grow that stand and go along, get some seeds from somewhere. And then just go a couple more and say incentive incentive. Maybe because you're joining us. So this fall, you know, try to dive into all the Popeyes. Does anybody else have any questions about Papa, as I mentioned, if you're interested in getting some selling packages of 10, all basically pay for the shipping and add any donation you like. And also not to seize a 10% on about 20 packages so far that says 20 people who appear to be caring about the fact that pop up should be everywhere for free, because that's a major, major major on future record to one by the other side of the spread. Cool. So you're getting out a stand of one tree, which is going to possibly be genetically and fertile. I think you need two plants to produce their own stands. And then those cross pollinate with each other. So you may need another tree.
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I'm pretty sure that's how it works. But again,
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the wild desk, everything I can about Paul Paul's been talking to everyone about them, finding their habitat, seeing everything, and trying to preserve this tradition. This is the story of this country. This is the story for arms is a story of the transition of children in America. And it starts cousin Tracy. And this is a rival and I believe part of it is going home a lot of reconciliation and healing with our genocide that happened in this country. And the people here and bringing back these native foods are going to bring up a lot of discussion about how we heal and reconcile that. And how we learn how to clean up ecosystem. And allow the ecosystem to be predominantly based on local food and medicine,
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not based on
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destroying our own food, food and medicine with patients. So the more that you can get your hands in there and do something ecology and learn those practices, the more that you have a leadership role, I guess.
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And so then talk to the park system about
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how medicinal certain plants are. I had an interaction with this guy who said Oh, yeah, what are you? What are you doing? I was taking over with? And he goes, What? What's that, like? I put on my door, you know, science store classroom. And well, this is wrong, of course. So this is also clinically shown as an anti staphylococcus. And he was called was like, Oh, that's cool. And then he was like, Yeah, I work for, you know, moving invasive plants around you. And he's like, yeah, we get rid of tons of honeysuckle. And I was like, Well, did you know that honeysuckle has also been shown in studies to be accurate against viral infections and music? Yes. Just honeysuckle. And I was like, Yeah, well, you know, it's either honeysuckle locally, or we continue to produce pharmaceuticals that then expire and get put into the waterways and go out into the ocean and cause algae blooms. And then that causes the oxygenation of the planet. And he was like, it's just how many several
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but even by doing that, having that interaction, like, who knows what, see that sets, and it is true that honeysuckle isn't a vial, and is a lot less damaging to produce and discard of then trillions and trillions and trillions of pharmaceuticals with filler of petroleum going into the ocean, causing mass, algae blooms, mass oxygen die off. And so the other option is, biomass creates carbon sequestration. And that's what we learned. So even all falls in that area would help increase biomass which pulls in carbon is the soil, we need to build soil if we don't want to buy an association and the plastic bag. It's a race to good soul. And the poem is now all responsibility with that. And thank you, everybody repairs, and I just see so many of you were doing from American culture all over. You know, that's the concept of you know, yesterday Cincinnati plants is also the, you know, just turn all these yards in the gardens. You know, stop with the grass, stop at the chemical and employee
Dan De Lion 36:21
Dan De Lion 36:22
to feed us. She's really good at it. She knows how to do it. So he believes something out of it. So
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green beans, thing is he believes he's
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Dan De Lion 36:39
just remember that.
Dan De Lion 36:42
And Bob Murphy on wall will be in touch anytime, or walking, pop up walking.
Sara Schuster 36:52
Wow. So much great information there. Thanks again to dandelion for sharing all that with us. If you want to connect with him, you can find him on social media as returned to nature. And I'll have direct links in the show info as well. definitely connect with him to follow his work. check in on the pop hop project and to see if he's going to be doing any events in your area in the near future. Those are definitely worth jumping on to if you can. As always, I will be here on the first and third Wednesday of each month with new episodes. You're always welcome to contact me with questions, comments or topics you'd like me to cover. You can reach me on Instagram at Fox and elder all one word, or also by email, Fox and email@example.com. I hope you're having a great start here somewhere out there. getting lots of goodness out of the garden and harvesting and just generally making your way through the world with a happy heart. Until next time, keep your hands dirty and your heart open.